Price Psychology Underpins Profitability

Today, our guest is Tatiana Tsoir. Tatiana is a CPA, MBA, award-winning accountant, bestselling author. We’re going to talk about her book, I think, some today. She’s a speaker, a business expert. She’s a strong believer that the key to happiness lies in entrepreneurship, which I think is awesome. She encourages, empowers entrepreneurship, and the side hustle, at every age. Over the last 18 plus years, she’s used her expertise in tax planning—and price psychology is another topic we’ll talk about today—to help hundreds of businesses become more profitable, stabilize cash flow, and pay less in taxes, through a combination of strategies, which are always fun to talk about, operational planning, which she’ll have fun talking about. That’s not my expertise. And that commitment to excellence. Tatiana now focuses on supporting individuals and building a business that changes lives, including their own. And she is about to record, I think, or present, two TEDx talks, and we’ll have to talk about that as well. Tatiana, welcome to The Unique CPA.

Randy, thanks so much for having me on. It’s a pleasure.

Yeah, it’s gonna be fun. It’s, you’re into so many things and helping so many people out there. We’ve been talking about doing this for months. And I’m glad we finally got the date set. So to kind of set the stage, why don’t you give us a little background on you, let’s hear your story. And then we’ll see how you got to this point where you’ve got this passion for helping businesses.

Yeah, it’s been, well, it was a rocky road. It’s actually much better now. But I started out, so I grew up in a different in another country, I grew up in—I actually was born in the Soviet Union. I grew up in Belarus, and I moved to the US when I was 19. So this year, it’s actually going to be 20 years since I moved to the US. So most of my life, I’ve lived here. And ever since I remember, ever since I was 14, I wanted to be a lawyer. It was really my big passion. And I watched all episodes of Law and Order when I was a kid, and I still watch them because I love Mr. McCoy, and stuff, anyway. But you know, when I came to the US, so I went to law school for two years in Belarus, and that’s a five year program, so it’s kind of like a combination of undergrad and grad. 

Yep. 

And when I came to the US, circumstances worked out that I stayed here, and I didn’t finish education there, and all of that. And so I went to college and transferred some credits. And I still had the goal of attending law school in the US, but it is a grad degree. And so I needed to get my bachelor’s first. And because I was here by myself, I needed to support myself financially. So when time came to choose a major, even though law schools supposedly frowned upon accounting, I still decided to do accounting because I thought, okay, I need some skill to support me, and accounting is a great skill for that, and I could support my myself through college, and then through law school and in between. And so I picked accounting. Which I think by the way, you know, law schools frowning upon accounting, I think is short sighted, but that’s another conversation. 

But I got lucky because I went to Hunter College, and it’s one of the CUNY, City University of New York, system. And Hunter is generally known as a nursing school, but the accounting department is extremely strong, and they’re really great teachers, and they brainwashed us where every class they would say, if you’re majoring in Accounting, you might as well sit for the CPA exam, and I thought I might as well. So that kind of became a goal, you know, what you call an accomplishment goal from me. 

And somewhere because I was working, I was working with small businesses for five businesses at a time doing bookkeeping, and going to college taking five, six classes. I really, you know, I learned the theory in school and I applied it next day at work. And so for me, it was an instant connection and I saw how decisions were made. And so how leaders were becoming better or worse, you know, I saw a different caliber of people that I worked with and seen how it kind of, how their decisions back to their business in their lives. And somewhere along the way, I fell in love with small business and the rest is history. That’s kind of what brought me to where I am.

In about, in 2018, I got the runner up award from Intuit Firm of the Future and that kind of prompted me to get trained in proactive tax strategies and that quadrupled my business, reduce the amount of time I actually work and all of those things. And so I was able to raise my own kids, which is what I’ve wanted, which I initially, when I initially left the firm that I used to work for. And then you know, over the years, I’ve gotten to a point, which is where traditional accountants get to where you work a lot, and you neglect your family. And my kids used to say, mommy always works. And that was the opposite of what I wanted. 

Yeah. 

So that’s kind of how I got into all of that. And now I do a lot of other things, which is cool.

Yeah, so you figured it out. That’s one thing we talk about all the time on this podcast, just hey, how do we not work nonstop? How do we have lives with our families? And so that’s cool. That’s, I could talk for the next two hours just on that. But the one thing we did talk about ahead of time is that, I think it’s an interesting subject is you know, and we’d said it in your bio, though, is the pricing psychology, the pricing methodology, pricing in general. And that’s a topic you’re passionate about. So why don’t you give us a little background on why and what we’re talking about with pricing psychology.

So in 2019, when I joined the Proactive Tax Reduction, and I joined also, Jackie Meyers and Chuck Bowers, Concierge Accountant Group, at the same time, I also joined Mark Wickersham’s price psychology training, and it was mind blowing, absolutely mind blowing. And it really, I think it really played a role in how quickly I was able to double and triple and quadruple my business, because I really worked on the pricing on developing packages, which is something that Chuck and Jackie briefly teach. They tell you to develop your packages, and they kind of show you some examples, but you’re on your own in terms of why this needs to be done that way, or how to actually do it. And that’s where price psychology comes in. 

And so when I did that, you know, it took me about two years to perfect my packages. So I’ve tried different things. And I’ve kind of, you know, shot myself in the foot for a second with some of those. But thankfully, only probably one client stayed on one of those initial packages that I developed. And the price psychology piece is just so amazing. Price psychology is about how people make buying decisions based on price alone. I mean, obviously, we make buying decisions based on different things, but price is one of them. And so price psychology explores how those decisions are made and how you as a business can use price psychology to allow clients to really pick or compare apples to apples, so that they see the value. As opposed to, choose just based on price and stuff like that. 

And so it took me about two years, I started out with, you know, price psychology talks about the menu pricing, which is three packages and—

Three tier?

Yeah. And the reason that there are three packages is because if you do two, you’re kind of pigeonholing a person into a yes or no. Mostly they will choose no, because they’re like, I don’t know what to choose, I’m stuck. And so they end up not choosing at all. When it’s more than three, it’s also a problem, because then it’s too many options. Like, and you know, and our, you and I are connected through Tax Council and, you know, software companies. Mark presented this information many, many years ago at QuickBooks connect. And I remember that one of the payroll providers that was at that event as well quickly changed and presented their most expensive package first, which is how you should do it. Because if you present the benefits, if you present the price, the client says okay, what’s the point of presenting the other ones, why give them a chance to pick a lower option? 

And also, when you present it from left to right, biggest to smallest, when you start taking away benefits, it has a very profound psychological effect where, all people are loss averse. And so when you start losing benefits, it’s very, it’s a much more powerful effect than when you add benefits to it. And so basically, when it’s more than three, the person is confused. So like, Intuit has four subscriptions on their website. And yes, they do highlight the most popular, whatever plus, or whatever version, but when it’s four, you’re like, I don’t even know what I’m supposed to choose. So people end up not choosing at all, they’re confused and overwhelmed. And/or they just choose the cheapest one, which is usually the case.

And then, so three is optimal. And there’s been studies and all of those things that to prove the three is optimal. And then again, you’re presenting your biggest option first, then your middle package, and then your bottom package. The statistics says that 60% of people will buy your middle package. And for an accounting business, for example, what it tells you is that you have to create good value in the middle package, and also price it with your target profit in mind. So because you’re going to be selling mostly that package. That’s true, certainly true for my business. And there’s been against studies done on that, and stuff like that. But here’s the thing, too. Generally accounting firms have one offer, right? And then it’s usually custom. Like, I’m sitting down with a client, I’m telling them a price, oh, it’s too much, okay, can you pay this or okay? I’m not the right accountant for you, that kind of stuff. 

And so, the idea is that, you know, if you imagine the demand and supply curves intersecting, and that’s the equilibrium price, that’s generally the price that accountants offer—one price. But there are areas on that graph where there’s an opportunity, there will always be people who will want an all inclusive resort, there will always be people who really want to work with you, but can’t afford your main offer. And so if you can create a three level offer, then you will get a higher market share than you otherwise would have. And so that’s really powerful. 

And then, you know, for me, I struggled most with developing the cheapest option. And that should be kind of like your walkaway price, your walkaway service. Initially, when I just started out in 20, early 2019. So that’s four years ago, what I did was I decided, okay, this package is going to be only a tax return, and maybe not a notice response and stuff. Because people, you know, if you don’t outline, people think it’s included, and then you end up doing it for free, which is true for most accountants

Yep.

And so I did that. But then I started getting people who were, again, $2,000 clients a year. And they were emailing me throughout the year, and I was like, I don’t even know if I’m supposed to like charge them, I feel bad for charging them and that kind of stuff. And so, you know, you get into this rabbit hole of an experience, if you don’t price it out well. And so I actually stopped that. And I decided I’m not going to take on clients who are just tax returns. And so the minimum service that I now offer, my firm now offers, is, first of all, it’s we do your bookkeeping for the business. We don’t take on only individual clients, you have to have an investment or real estate or a lot of different things in order for us to actually take it on. So some good complexity. Or business. 

And so generally, my basic package includes one tax return for personal one tax return for the business, monthly bookkeeping, and then also notice response. And that’s it. And basically, oh, quarterly tax meets, even though I don’t meet on calendar quarters, I usually meet with people in May, September, November, and December. So four meets, and four basically kind of projection reviews together. So I prepare for those projections. We meet and discuss things, we adjust things, and we kind of make payments and whatnot. And so that’s kind of the basic service that I do. And I just don’t accept anybody who just needs their taxes done.

I think that’s awesome to define your client, because so many people, especially when they’re starting out in business, and in accounting and tax, bookkeeping, just want to take everybody because I want the revenue, I want this client and then they ended up just getting this practice that is just all over the place, and they can’t concentrate on one type of service or like you have. And I know you and I had back and forth on niche before—you have a niche, you just defined a niche right there. You know, so whether you know it or not, you in my mind, you have a niche. It’s the client has to have complexity, they have to you know, you know, maybe business owner has to be, yeah, and well, you said it’s not 1040 only, so they’re a business owner or rental properties or something. So yeah, I think that’s awesome. 

When you define then when you did your pricing structure, you put this together, you had the psychology behind it. You said you were working crazy hours the kids weren’t seeing mom. I assume that this made you a lot more efficient, too. You probably were better at scheduling. How did that affect the bottom line? I guess from a profitability standpoint, and from a time investment standpoint?

So I mean, this is where Chuck Bowers’ training really helped me and really transformed me and of course it didn’t, it wasn’t an instant flip switch. It took a little time again, just like with price psychology took a little time for me to nail the nail to perfection to make it work for me. But before I’ll just give you kind of like a rundown of: before I started those things, I had a hundred and something clients, was making about 120k a year, couldn’t afford much, meaning that we were just paying our bills and you know, but I was working a lot. I was working, during tax season, I was working five, seven days a week. 

Right.

Off season I was working four or five. And my problem was this: Like I say, summer, my kids would go to daycare after age of three before that, they would stay at home. My mom would help out. But they would go to daycare. And then during the summer, the two, three months in the summer we would spend together and we would like, take day trips to a farm or a museum or something. And so this was a really great time for me to reconnect with them. And really, I really value that connection with my kids. And this one year, this was 2018. This one year I, first of all, I got a project that was a good money project. And because I needed the money, so I took on that project. And I also, you know, these clients that pay you a couple thousand a year, “Oh, I need to have a meeting with you. When can you do it? And I look at my calendar, and it’s open, because you know, it’s the summer, so I’m not scheduling my work or anything like that. And I’m looking at it. And I’m like, when do you want to do it. So they would say Wednesday at 12. And I would say okay, and then another client would be a Thursday, and then another client would be a Friday and a Monday and Tuesday. So I would have something that I’m pinned to my desk every day of the week. And so that summer, I didn’t spend as much time with the kids. And I was really upset about it. But it was my own fault in my own making. 

And basically when I joined Chuck’s and Jackie’s program, Chuck teaches you on calendar blocking and stuff. And you know, at first I started blocking the calendar, meaning I would say, okay, Mondays from 10 to 12, I’ll do XY and Z, 12 to one I’ll have flex time and lunch 123, I would study for the exam, US CPE exam and all that. And so I would create that schedule in blocks in hours almost. And that was stressful. I could never keep up the schedule, and I started completely ignoring that, that blocking. So then I realized that it’s really you know, I started writing the book. And I needed to focus on some stuff. And I started launching working on the course. 

So I decided like this: So offseason, Mondays, and Thursdays will be my client call days, right. And now it’s actually Tuesdays, Tuesdays only for the accounting from the rest of the Wednesday and Thursday are for coaching clients only. Because here’s the thing, most of the holidays fall on a Monday. And so if you have to consistently reschedule those people somewhere, if you keep on Monday, and then also, you know, people get into the routine. So the clients that I coach, the accounting clients that I coach, know that they have a slot on Tuesdays at 10, or Tuesdays at 9 or Tuesdays at 11. And that’s their slot. And that’s when we meet, every week, or twice a month depending on their package. And so now it’s that. But it wasn’t like that, it was two days a week before. So I was giving people a choice kind of. And I was working, if I didn’t have the calls. I was working on some stuff on Thursday.

Then Tuesday and Wednesday were my creative day. So I would write or create, record a course or plan a course or whatever. And or study. I’m always constantly learning and that’s kind of what drives me forward. And so I would study on those days Fridays, I would keep open just in case there is a snow day and I have to like, oh, Wednesday’s a snow day. Now I’m home with kids on Wednesday, so Fridays, my makeup day for that kind of. 

And so that’s kind of what I’ve done for about a year and then it really worked well for me. So now offseason, I work two days a week, max, sometimes it’s even one and a half. Sometimes it’s even one day a week, on this business. And then the rest of the days I do other stuff. I do check my email, and I do respond to things if I need to. But it’s also a pre scheduled times like I do, I check my email twice or three times a day, and that’s it. And I’m not responding to people right away. Because I mean, there’s really no emergency in accounting, if we’ve talked, talk about urgent stuff, but people are so used to responding quickly. They’re so used to expecting a response quickly that I just don’t do it. Especially they’re not a VIP client. 

So basically, that’s kind of how it worked and how it worked out. Now, you know, after I’ve written a book and published it, and I’ve promoted heavily and all of that. Now I’m working on my second book and a third, and a second ebook as well, and preparing for Ted, I have to Ted’s coming up. And so I usually dedicate at least one or two days a week to that during tax season, I work four or five days a week. And so that’s still like that, but I’m implementing delegation, and I have people working for me so that I can work less that’s kind of how it is and it’s much better than it was because now I’m very flexible if I need to take half a day or a day off I’m not even guilty about it because I know that I’ll get my stuff done anyway. 

Yeah, it’s nice to hear. Because this is something I talk about a lot in the mental health presentation I do is just that whole time schedule, blocking things off, making sure that you take time for yourself and knowing where you’re going, and what day and what time. 

So there’s so much that questions that just came out of those last two sentences that I want to ask. And I’m not sure which way to go. But the first thing, I want to clarify this, you say that Tuesdays or whatever it days is for your coaching clients. So this is part of one of your packages, then I assume is that you do some coaching? Is this almost like a virtual CFO type role? Or what is the coaching, and how do you define your coaching with your clients?

So fractional CFO is a different service. Typically, it’s not coaching, it’s us discussing the trends, discussing the balance sheet management, the risk assessment, and all of those things. That’s part of our fractional CFO service. And, yes, so typically, if it’s a fractional CFO client, and we have a weekly call, it would be on a Tuesday. But also part of my middle package, my middle package includes one call a month, where we review the month we talk about trends we talk about, I answer questions for our clients. And, you know, what I found was that most people believe that they’re stupid by accountants, because that’s just the nature of the accounting personality. 

Alright. I suppose so!

When we talk to people, they feel like we’re talking down to them, and they feel like they should know some stuff, but they don’t. But the reality is that people have these, quote, unquote, stupid questions that really, nobody educates people on. And I’m talking about what’s an HSA? When do I need it? Should I invest in this property? Should I not? That kind of stuff. And so strategic planning, and also just other stuff, and I’ll give you an example, I had a client, a younger guy, he’s probably 33 now or so—we started working together when he was about turning 30. And so he’s a very successful real estate broker in Washington State. And we were talking, and he bought my VIP package, which is great, because my VIP package includes three monthly calls. And then quarterly tax calls, that’s part of every package, right? My middle package includes one to two calls, depending on the price. So if the clients need a bit more support, it’s going to be twice a month. If they just need ongoing support monthly, we’ll just talk monthly. And typically after I close the month, or we close the month, for that client, so they we can discuss the numbers and he can ask or she can ask questions and stuff. 

But the idea is that I’ve had this client from Washington State, we started working together and first few calls. And I’m telling him, listen, you have to look at your reports weekly. I mean, ideally, daily, that’s what I have my best successful clients look at their stuff daily, and learn to read the black and white reports. And so a couple of weeks go by and on a call, he says, “Listen, I remember you told me to look at the reports and start looking at them. I’m looking, but I don’t understand what that means, what I’m looking at.” And so that’s kind of, to me is a really great example of how people who are not accountants and maybe not in finance, they don’t understand some of the basic things. Is this an expense? Is that an expense? And we assume they know, they assume that they should know they feel guilty, they can’t really tell you that they don’t know. And they can’t ask questions because they feel embarrassed. 

And so that’s kind of part of the package now, where the only package is the bottom package where we don’t talk monthly, we just basically connect for tax reviews. And I don’t have a lot of clients on it. Because clients do want support. They’re like, oh my god. And usually when it comes to coming back to price psychology, they’re like looking at the packages and they say, it’s a question of not whether to buy or not. It’s a question of which package should I get? And that’s a really powerful thing.

Alright. So I love the coaching, I love the three tier, I love the price psychology, this is all stuff I think just helps every firm be more efficient, run a better practice, have a better work life balance. There’s a few things that I want to touch on before we we wrap up and we can go any direction. But another thing that you mentioned, I see you’re saying these things that I go, oh, I gotta ask about that. The courses you’re developing, what are these courses? Who are you educating with courses?

So I have several programs, you know, besides I do kind of like a private price psychology consulting for accounting firms and businesses, but I also, we also offer I have partnered with someone on this one program, which is a fractional CFO. It’s a live program, where we teach you how to do that, how to offer that service, how to price it, how to structure it, how to do all the things so that you can make more money offseason and kind of diversify your risk, and also make a lot more money just in general. 

Yep. 

And so that’s the program we’re teaching the guy, the partner that I’m teaching with was a C level executive at CIT bank, chief credit officer, and chief investment officer. So he now works as a private investor, meaning that he does turn around business situations where business needs a cash inflow now, and he basically structures it with them. But what he has found is that about 50% of those businesses that he does turnarounds for have a fractional CFO, a CPA, or an accountant that also does their taxes. And they’re not doing their job as a fractional CFO. So we partnered up and we created that program. 

The other two courses that I have are bookkeeping based. So one of them is a from scratch bookkeeper training, the way I want them for my firm. And that’s great for a mom, because I think moms can make a lot more money than being a VA, but also can do meaningful work and do it well. So that training is available. And then I also have a slightly lower version of that. It’s called bookkeeping for accountants. It’s basically for someone who works at a big four or you know, big eight or whatever bigger firm where they’re part of this conveyor belt operation, and they are not familiar with small business, bookkeeping. So it skips the normal balances, debits and credits, but it does teach on the day to day small business, bookkeeping and the intricacies of that.

Nice. Well, let’s stick on that theme then, because I want to touch on two more things before we do wrap up. TEDx, I want to talk about that last. But before that, you mentioned it earlier, you’ve got the one book out and dream bold, Start Smart. And so what was the impetus for that? How did you come up with this idea and give us a little synopsis of the book.

It’s actually a really funny story. So for as long as I remember, I wanted to be an accountant, right? Meaning that when I started on the journey, I wanted to be an accountant. And I really love accounting. I do love accounting. But I remember, this was 2019, so I got into Profit First in like 2019 or so. And then I got invited by Mike Michalowicz, accidentally invited, because I was considering writing a Profit First-derivative book. You know, I reached out to him and we talked and, you know, he was like, why don’t you come to this event I’m throwing for aspiring or active authors? And I was like, okay, so I came to the event. 

And I had this idea of writing a book on tax strategies, plus profit, first, some combination of that, to basically have a business book, meaning business card book, so that I can get more business into my business. And as I was sitting there, and Mike was talking about what it’s like to be an author, what it’s what it means to be an author, what the journey is, and blah, blah, blah, whatever, I caught myself thinking that for the first time, probably in six or ten years at that point, that doing taxes is not everything I want to do. It’s not the only thing that I want to do. 

And I actually, I decided I want to write a book that changes lives. And so what I found was because in my practice, I stopped working with startup businesses, meaning the businesses that are starting up, except for funded startups, I decided, okay, I’m getting these clients that are have been in business already for some time. And I keep finding these mistakes, and these are things that they could have done differently and or better. And I’m, and I just find myself heartbroken, because I think if only they knew how to do it better. And so that’s kind of how this book was born. I wanted to write a roadmap for someone who wants to start a business and do it right. So that there’s less heartbreak, there’s less failures and all of those things.

Yeah. So the book,s audience is someone that wants to start up a business or has a business and wants to be smarter about it, I assume?

Yeah!

Nice. But the last thing I want to touch on is the TEDx. I know this is something you’ve been working on, I just heard a week or two ago that it’s happening. So give us an idea of what’s going on with the TEDx? What are you talking about?

So the TEDx is going to happen in the University of Cincinnati. And my TEDx idea is entrepreneurship is a whole brain craft. And it’s a two fold idea. I talk about the fact that entrepreneurship is a craft, which means that it’s something anyone can learn, including you, including anybody. I also talked about the fact that accountants, many accountants, maybe not most, but many accountants treat what they do a practice, not a business. And I’ve certainly, I’m certainly guilty of that for many years. And it’s a very different mindset. 

And so, for non-accountants, treating it as a craft, just like a book, writing a book because it is a craft, you can learn the steps in the system, how to do it and how to do it. Well, same thing with with entrepreneurship. And you need a whole brain approach, which means that you need to support your vision which is your right brain, with numbers, always, in business. And that’s how you make it successful. That’s how you make it. And I have examples and stories that I’ve personally seen in my clients, in some of the most amazing clients that I’ve worked with, and some not so much, you know, not so amazing. But that’s kind of the idea behind it. So I want to inspire better businesses. I want people to read their numbers, and use them to build their vision and build the life they want.

All right, nice. And this. So this is since a didn’t I hear you’re doing this twice? Is it the same topic? Are you doing two locations? 

No, the first one is in your University of Cincinnati, the second one, you can’t present the same idea on two TEDx stages. And so the second one is very interesting. It’s a high school event, meaning it’s a high school stage. And they’re looking for more youth oriented speakers. So topics that are more youth oriented. And so my topic there, which I haven’t yet developed, but there’s already a topic is “entrepreneurship is a skill for life.”

Okay. All right, this is awesome. I’m excited to see this. This is another goal of mine. So I’m going to have to lean on you again for figuring out how I’m going to get my own TEDx scheduled. I really am excited for you—that’s great. 

So I think it’s about time we wrap up. What I want to just ask, is there a final thought that you want to share, some motivation? Get us out there, get us working? I mean, anything you want to give us to wrap up? And then after you do that, I got two last questions I’m going to ask you.

Yeah. Alright. So yesterday, I met with this, with a new, with just a networking client, and not a client, but a prospect, and a really cool woman. And you know, she was saying she’s a coach, and she’s an intimacy coach. And so she said, “Oh, you know, I charge $200 an hour, but I often knock it down because people can’t pay.” And I’m like, you know, I used to do that as an accountant for many, many years. But ever since 2019, I no longer do it at all. No discounts. No negotiation, if you start negotiating your price with me, I walk away, I just, you know, sorry, I can’t help you. 

But the reason I quit my accounting firm in the first place was because I wanted to be free. I wanted to raise my own kids, it was important for me. And then I ended up in the same boat as most accountants where you don’t actually do that, right? Because you’re so busy, and you’re responsible, and hyper, whatever. And so I told her, I feel like I’m stealing from my kids when I give away my time, for free, or for less than I’m worth. 

Yeah. 

And she was like, You’re absolutely right. I’m gonna stop doing that. So that’s what I want to leave the audience with.

Yes, that’s great advice. Alright, the final two questions. And this is two questions everybody gets one is, and I didn’t warn you ahead of time. So we talked about this, and you know, what you’re doing business wise, and how you’ve got better at being more free time and everything else. What do you do with your free time? What’s your passions outside of work, when you’re not out educating or running your business or speaking, what are your outside of work passions?

Before selling about those, I want to say that a lot of the stuff that I do, I’m really passionate about the speaking, and the book writing, and some accounting. But I’m a very multifaceted person. I mean, people when they hear about what I do outside of work, they’re like, how do you have time to do all of this? And I’m like, I don’t have time to do all this. I just do it. 

Right. 

So like, we take, my husband and I, we take ballroom dance lessons every week. Our friends have a studio actually in our town, which is cool. And I also take Krav Maga lessons, it’s a mixed martial art, but it’s actually much more than a sport. So it’s actually a self defense and stuff, which is awesome. But, you know, it was a personal passion of mine for years. I’m into guns and weapons. And so I go to range sometimes and train. And I play the guitar. I don’t know any notes. I play just knowing chords, and I sing and all of those things. So I do a lot of different things. And I study psychology too.

Wow. Yes, you do a lot. But that’s cool, stay busy. 

Yeah. 

And then last question. You know, all this stuff’s intriguing and your coaching and your courses, if anybody wants to get a hold of you, what’s the best place or best way?

I live in Instagram, because I’m told to do so by my social media people. I don’t love it, but you know, I have to. But anyway, so I live there. You can just message me at Tatiana Tsoir, DM or whatever, or my website TatianaTsoir.com, or a quick shortcut, TalkToTatiana.com for the same website.

Alright, well, that’s great. Well, Tatiana, this did not disappoint. I appreciate you being on and I look forward to talking to you again. So again, thanks for being here.

Thanks so much. It’s been my pleasure.