Well, welcome everybody to the five year anniversary episode of The Unique CPA Podcast. We are going to do things a little bit different today. The cool thing is I have Tim Jipping on the show. Tim was our very first episode back on, I think the date was October 23rd of 2019. So five years ago.

Tim actually was a repeat guest, a surprise guest on our live podcast we did back in, I think, August or September of 2022. It was great to see him out there then. Tim actually reached out to me a year ago or so and asked if he at some point could interview me on the podcast. And I thought, you know what, what better time than do it on the five year anniversary of when Tim and I first talked on the podcast. So before I kick it over to Tim or let him take the control, because he’ll be doing the interviewing today, Tim, welcome back to The Unique CPA Podcast.

Well, thank you for having me, Randy. It’s always good to see you, especially on an occasion like this to celebrate a milestone. You know, five years of anything, of doing anything is, you know, something to be proud of. 

True. 

You know. It’s just really cool to see what you’ve done. So I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to do this, you know, fire back some questions at you, some of the similar questions you’ve been asking others over the years.

That’s awesome. So, but before we do that, before I give you complete control, before I sit here and be a, what would you call that? Not guinea pig, but be your interviewee. That’s easy enough. You know, when you and I talked five years ago, one, I remember the day we met and I remember being super impressed with what you were doing and it was at an Upstream Academy conference in Chicago. And when I started this podcast, you had a podcast at the time and I thought, you know what, what better, to have this super impressive guy be my first guest on the podcast. And you were gracious enough to do that, but at the time you were just starting Journey Advisors & CPAs. I think I got the name right. And before I hand it completely over to you, why don’t you give us an update on how that five year journey has gone for you?

Yeah, it’s like I said, five years of doing anything is something to celebrate and we celebrate here too at Journey, but we’ve come quite a long way. I think when we spoke, it was me and my colleague, Lisa, who’s now a partner at the firm. 

Nice. 

And it was just her and I, and as of today, we have 17 people in the firm. So we’ve had quite the growth and a lot of fun along the way. Lots of learning. We’re still in the same area. We have another office. We’ve got some team members located outside of the country. We are doing different things than we started doing. I mean, not all different, but we’ve added to our service area and it’s been a blast. It’s been a lot of fun, but it’s stressful at times, but it’s worth it, right? I mean, that’s what it’s all about. 

So we have a great team here. We’re continuing to grow and really try to make a difference in the industry, but more, you know, on the ground sort of things. I did do a podcast. You mentioned that. I haven’t done that since we actually spoke five years ago, but I’ve been head down on the firm and trying to build something really cool. I think I maybe said that on the first episode and we’re still working on it. It is a journey, just like our name indicates. So yeah, it’s been great.

Nice. Well, like I said, I was super impressed and great to see what you’re doing. I didn’t know 17 was the number now, but that’s awesome, and congrats on that and all the best in the future. I know you’re doing things the right way, which is awesome. So with that being said, I’m all yours. I’m kicking it over. You are now the host of The Unique CPA Podcast.

Alright, welcome to The Unique CPA Podcast, hosted by none other than Randy Crabtree, except for today. Randy, the first question I have for you is, if you can recall back to when you wanted to start the podcast, what was some of the initial promptings for you? What did you want to accomplish back then? And then the second part of the question. Have you accomplished that?

That’s a great question because I honestly did not come up with the idea of starting a podcast. In fact, it surprised me when everybody pointed at me when we decided we were going to host a podcast. But from day one, I said, you know, we’re a specialty tax firm, Tri-Merit is, we do tax credits and incentives. And I said, well, there’s no way I’m doing a tax credit incentive podcast. It’s not, I don’t want to listen to that every week or at that time when we started, it was every other week. I’m not listening to this, so who else wouldn’t want to listen to this? And then, you know, after five topics, you start running out of stuff. 

So I’ve always been a big fan of our profession. I’ve had ups and downs in the profession, but I thought, you know what? There’s people doing really cool things out there in this profession. So let’s do a podcast where we just talk about what people are doing, you know, how they’re running their firms, maybe some unique, innovative things that they are doing that could help others in the profession. And that was—I don’t even remember the tagline we had back there ’cause it’s changed, but it was something similar to that, you know, sharing stories of people that are doing cool things in the profession. Paraphrasing now. 

I honestly think we’ve stuck to that pretty well and I’m pretty happy. And in fact, I think we’ve even leaned into that further as the years have gone on, where maybe I’ve even got a little too hyper focused on certain subjects, but it’s subjects I think are really important to help the profession.

So what’s been the most surprising thing you’ve learned about podcasting over the years?

Oh, the most surprising thing I’ve learned. The first thing, the very first thing that I learned is if you ask people to be on a podcast, they never say no. I thought it’d be very hard to get guests, and getting guests is not the issue. I think I’ve only had one “no” over the hundred and whatever episodes, probably getting close to 200 episodes we’ve recorded at this point, I’ve only had one no. People like talking about what’s going on with them and their firm and the profession in general. That surprised me a little. 

What also surprised me a little is, you know, when you and I recorded the first one, I think I spent eight hours minimum prepping for that one episode. Since that time, I spend about maybe five minutes prepping, because it’s a conversation. I don’t have to have the answers because I ask the questions and the guests have the answers. So it took me a while to realize I don’t have to be the one trying to have the answers, all I had to do was ask good questions and let the people answer them.

Have you found yourself? Developing better listening skills? I find that in interviewing, and I think we even spoke about it maybe on the first episode of, you know, in our profession, we’re essentially detectives in a certain way, right? We’re trying to get to answers, we’re asking questions, and probably the most important thing to be a good question asker is to be a good listener. So have you seen some new skills or habits develop or, like, elevate over the years by doing this? 

Yeah, I think so. And you said listening is so important. At the beginning, I was trying to listen. And take notes at the same time to get the next question going. And it’s like, that was just too hard because you couldn’t listen and write notes at the same time. ’Cause you’re going to lose the train of the whole conversation. So I think my listening skills and memory skills working together, I’m getting old, you know, Tim, I’m 62 now. So. I think it’s helped with my memory skills because I have to pay attention and I have to know what direction we’re going. So for me personally, that’s been fun.

What I didn’t realize, now I’m going to sound like I have a little ego, but what I didn’t realize is, people like my voice. That surprised me, because I, you know, nobody likes their voice. Like, I get asked all the time, “Hey, are you like a TV newscaster or a sportscaster or something, because your voice, it just sounds like that’s what you do.” Like, no, I’m a CPA, what are you talking about? And so I don’t know if that’s been honed over time, just being on podcasts or whatnot, but that was, I never expected that. And it’s, my wife, I think, is getting a little annoyed every time someone says it and I say, see, maybe I should do some audiobooks or something.

Yeah! Maybe! Get yourself a nice mic. 

Yeah, I don’t think so. 

Okay. Maybe in retirement or something like that, right? Maybe you can find a new passion project. 

There you go. If you write a book, Tim, I’ll do the audio version for you.

Excellent. Yeah, I don’t like the sound of my voice either and I’ve never gotten a compliment on mine. So I will come to you. 

Well, you have a great voice by the way, so. 

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Now, it might be difficult to recall on the spot, but is there one or two or three interviews or episodes that come to your mind where maybe a powerful message or story was shared that had an impact to you or maybe taught you something you weren’t expecting?

Oh, the podcast in general has shaped me. I mean, it’s honestly changed what I’m passionate about or, or I found my passion through it. And so, there’s a handful, obviously that first episode was such a meaningful thing for me because it’s like, okay, I can do this. And let’s start following the stories like Tim just told about how he wants to do things different and build his firm in this way. 

And so besides that, episode number three, which you introduced me to Josh Lance, that episode probably impacted me more than any episode, because Josh was just doing things different. Kind of like you and I talked about, he was doing things different, and anybody that’s listened to the show knows Josh passed away about a year ago now, but Josh was just doing things different, he built a remote, virtual office before that was chic. He was hiring people over the country. He was dealing with clients all over the country. He never tracked billable hours at all. It was all value based billing. He could charge more because he was a niche practice. All these really cool things that he was doing really impacted me. So that’s for sure, one. 

John Sensiba, who actually might have been episode number two, man, all these beginning episodes had a huge impact on me. John Sensiba, who built a firm based on culture, based on, he wanted to create a culture where people and their families could thrive. That was what his ideal was for this firm that he just took over managing partner. He basically tore down a $20 million firm, almost turned it into 14 million overnight, and now has built it back up to a $50 million firm that puts people first and is a B corporation. So puts, you know, the environment first and puts all these things. And so John. I go out and speak about culture all the time now, and John, I refer back to him. 

I’m going to go for a couple more episodes. So another one is John Garrett. You know, John’s book, What’s Your “And?”, and how important the person is, not the job title. So that is something that I talk about all the time, both in my culture and my mental health and burnout presentations. But John has been a huge impact on me over the years. 

Al-Nesha Jones—Al-Nesha, basically a accidental firm owner, was partner track at Big Four and decided that was not the life she wanted, went to work in private business and then kind of fell into starting her own firm. But she started her own firm based on boundaries that she was going to set with the clients and boundaries that she wanted to set for the firm. Four days a week, all her employees are working mothers like she was and is, niche practice, letting good clients go because they don’t fit the niche that they want to concentrate on. And it’s just a cool story when people build the firm that fits them, rather than trying to allow the clients to dictate the firm that you’re going to build.

So those are some of my favorites. I mean, I can throw in so many more. I mean, Dawn Brolin is a great friend of mine and Dawn and I, every time I talk with her, I’m inspired, I’m motivated and Dawn is The Designated Motivator. So the episode with Dawn was huge for me. Kristen Keats, who her goal in life is to “bring joy to accounting”—these kinds of things resonate with me. And so all these people that I just mentioned have taught me so much. That’s why I think my life’s gone down this path it has, because without the podcast, I would be doing things completely different, probably not having as much fun as I’m having now. I say often I’m living at the intersection of my passion and my skills, and that’s a beautiful place to live.

Absolutely. Now, have there been any events or new products, new services, new things that you’ve done yourself? I know that you have a conference you’ve been putting on. Do you give any credit for that to the podcast? Does it have any connection to the podcast? Maybe explain a little bit about how this has maybe led you down some other paths or opened other doors that may have not otherwise been opened.

Now that’s great and you’re intuitive there. It’s, the conference would never would have happened without the podcast. The conference focuses on a lot of the things that we talk about in the podcast, you know, mental health awareness and work life balance and doing things more efficiently and building in technology, and delegating and collaborating, and just, Figuring out ways where we’re not working ourselves to death.

And that conference, in fact, the first two years, it was virtual and it was called “The Unique CPA Conference.” And then when we went live, it became “Bridging the Gap Conference.” And literally just booked a hotel for year three of Bridging the Gap. I probably should not announce it now because marketing told me I have to be quiet, but within the next few weeks, there should be an announcement of when and where Bridging the Gap will be for the next year. So that was definitely an offshoot of the podcast. 

In addition, I’ve written a lot of articles, or co written really, I have somebody that helps me. I speak, and he writes, and then we edit it together. That never would have happened without the podcast. Writing a book on firm culture right now, again, without the podcast, that never happens. Going back to the ego, you know, being named one of the Top 100 Most Influential People in the Accounting Profession in December of ’23. That never would have happened without the podcast. I’m on the AICPA Scholarship Judge. I’m on the Accounting Cornerstone Foundation, which gives out scholarships for people to attend their first conference. I’m on the Intuit Tax Council. I’m on CPA.com Advisory Board, on Accounting Today—sorry, I’m bragging here—but Accounting Today Firm Growth Forum Advisory Board, and I’m missing other things. But the point is not that I do all kinds of stuff. The point is, I got the opportunity to do all this because of the podcast, no doubt about it. And so that’s been such a ride for me.

As you look forward into the future for the show, are there any new formats or topics or other ideas that you plan to explore or try? 

Yeah, if we’re just brainstorming without anybody listening here, right? Oh, wait, maybe there’s a few people listening.

It’s just me and you!

Yeah, so it’s always been audio. We are going to start doing some video portions of the podcast, at least parts of it, on YouTube. The Unique CPA, along with, Bridging the Gap, we have a really cool community between both those structures, Bridging the Gap and The Unique CPA. And we considered, you know, kind of expanding that community to have whatever, support groups, you know, because we’re talking about mental health awareness, having, places where people can just reach out for, hey, I need to work on this type of client, I don’t know how to do it. Is there anybody else that would want it? Or whatever. Just a community that can support each other and there’s communities out there for sure. I mean, Jason Staats has a great community out there and he does a lot of this. There’s, Ryan Lozanis has a great community. There’s a lot of associations that have great communities.

I just think we’ve already built these relationships that if we can somehow turn that into a little bit deeper, more than just once a year at the conference, it’s something I’d look at. It’s just not something that I would run. So we’d have to, you know, have it almost member-run or, you know, I don’t know if you call it member, but, you know, Bridging the Gap “community person-run.” So those are some things that are being thrown about and yeah, I guess that’s probably where I should stop.

Okay. Yeah, I won’t push you any further and get you in trouble, but jumping off from there, one thing I wanted to ask you, because you’ve gotten the chance to speak and meet with so many different people and you’re really getting more and more in tune with what’s going on today, what’s kind of coming down the line—do you have any sort of bold predictions of maybe what’s next? I know that’s a big question, but in the industry we’ve seen such rapid change, you know, I mean, we’ve seen change in, you know, every part of our lives at a very rapid pace over the past 10, 15, 20 years, particularly the past four or five with the pandemic and kind of what that’s forced some different behavior.

But, as you kind of look down the line, it’s probably dangerous to try to predict what could happen five years from now, let alone five days from now. But do you have anything that you’ve sort of picked up or gleaned or as you’ve kind of meditated or thought about some of the conversations you’ve had and the connections you’ve made of what might be something that would surprise people or maybe anything that people may not agree with or think you’re crazy? I mean that tends to be how those changes come along, right? They’re, no one’s really seeing them coming and then all of a sudden they’re at your front door. 

Yep. And that’s, I love that question. I’m probably—I’m going to give you some answers—I’m probably not as forward thinking from that standpoint only because I’m not going to be around this profession all that much longer. We shall see. 

Sure. 

But it’d be hard for me to leave because I just love everybody that I get to deal with. But what I do see is a few things. One, obviously the easy answer is, you know, how are we going to deal with the pipeline issue and people coming in? Well, that’s going to get self corrected a few ways, in my opinion. First, it’s just a matter of not—people say change the message of accounting. It’s not the, you know, the message can be changed, but reality has to change first. And so that’s one reason that I try to have a teeny little impact on how people, you know, run their practices to make it more efficient. 

I think we’re already seeing a little uptick, and this is, I may be way off here, but a little uptick in people coming into the profession. I thought I heard that. I know Purdue University did something to attract more people to go into the profession. Jennifer Wilson headed up that pipeline survey along with the AICPA, or for them, had some really good suggestions on things we need to do to get more people in the profession.

We just did a satisfaction survey for the professions. We identified areas where, you know, firms can address the most common levels of dissatisfaction, like middle managers, most dissatisfied in the profession. How do we make their job better so that they can stick around? I think we’re going to see an uptick in people coming into the profession. I think if we continue down this road of, of work life balance, and we have to, especially with the next generations coming in, you know, I’m a Boomer, even Millennials aren’t as much, but you know, Gen Z and Gen X or whatever the gens are right now, they want to see technology integrated. They want to know before they even go work somewhere is, how have you increased the efficiencies of things you’re doing? They want to know that there’s going to be an impact that they’re going to be able to make in the profession or with people, with clients. And so I think we’re going to start concentrating on more things like that. The impact we’re making, not just the hours we’re putting in, but what kind of impact are we making? And I think that’s going to start attracting more people into the profession. 

And with technology, it’s going to allow us to do the things that we like doing rather than the things we have to do, like data entry, I mean, just to be simplistic, but it’s going to allow us all to become more advisors, which is, you know, in your name, your firm’s name, and a lot of firms’ name, and a lot of firms define advisory different too. I don’t think we’ll ever have a standard definition, but I think whatever advisory means to you, that’s the most important thing. And I think we’ll see more and more of that going on. 

I think what is potentially, and this is actually Barry Melancon, I was in a conference this week with Barry, who’s retiring, head of AICPA. He was mentioning that his biggest concern with AI and everything coming on is that tax is going to get ignored by firms because we’re going to spend All of our time in the advisory going forward because everything else get automated. But tax is also a pipeline to clients as well. So we have to make sure that continues to be a focus at some level, but a focus more on the advisory level. So those are things I’m seeing. 

So to summarize: I think more people, I think we’re going to see a higher level of satisfaction in the profession. I think we’re going to figure out ways to work less, make more, celebrate, you know, going back to John Garrett and celebrate people’s who they are rather than what they do. Nothing earth shattering there, I guess, but I’m bullish on the accounting profession. I see that we’ve got a bright future. 

Oh, and being a judge for AICPA scholarships? It is unbelievable. I just looked at, I think I looked at 16 people and every single one of them, I wanted to hire that second. I’m like, okay, yeah, no, you got to come work with us now. They were so super impressive and passionate about accounting, that that’s what makes me, be, bullish on the profession as well.

Do you foresee any, maybe, alternative paths or non-traditional roads to the accounting profession? I can just tell you, if I may, for about 30 seconds, we talk a lot about that and our firm is the pipeline. I mean, we hear about it. We read about it. You’ve, you know, you’ve talked about it quite a bit. It’s hard to really pay any attention to the profession without that being right in your face of, you know, the lowest number of people taking the CPA exam in 20 years, and over the next 10 years, you know, 50 to 70 percent of CPAs will be out of the profession. You kind of look at those, you know, I like to sell the opportunity, or pitch the opportunity, right? For the future, for those who are driven, want to build something themselves. 

But we’ve also been discussing, even trying to create what we would call Journey University, which does some of its own training, maybe taking some of those non-traditional folks who don’t have the normal accounting degree or are following that path. Are you seeing more of that these days? I think one of the recent podcasts that you had, I think it was, I want to say it was Logan Graf, I believe, who talked about hiring someone without a, you know, without any degree at all, let alone accounting. That really struck me because that, those are some things we’ve been talking about, and how do we do this well, right? And not diminish the quality of our work and, and our service delivery. But have you, have you seen some of that as you’re going around and talking with people and speaking and meeting with a wide array of firms?

Oh yeah, that is by far one of the biggest things out there. How do we get people into the profession that, that wasn’t originally their plan. They don’t have the accounting degree or like you said with Logan, they don’t have any degree. Logan actually did a thing at, was it Engage last year or was it the year before where he went around just asking the question to people of who is the youngest CPA you knew? And the answer was actually a lot older than most of us probably thought, but that doesn’t mean they’re not in the profession. Honestly, I think based on what you’re saying, I think I’m seeing as much of that non CPAs coming in the profession as I’m seeing firms not be CPA firms as well, because I mean, if you’re not going to do audit work, do you have to be a CPA firm? You don’t. Sometimes there’s hurdles in place to be called a CPA firm, which are weird hurdles. 

Chase Birky from Dark Horse, who’s built a really cool firm, innovative, is having trouble with multiple states because they won’t allow the, they don’t want the name “Dark Horse” to be a CPA firm. It has to be somebody’s name, which is so archaic. I don’t know why we put these hurdles in our way. You’ve probably heard this story before, because I think I said it on the podcast, but Richard Kopelman, who is managing partner of Aprio, which is a, I don’t even know what they are now, $500 million firm or more, Richard’s built a great firm. But at one point he merged in a firm—and I shouldn’t say states, but I apologize, North Carolina, if I got you wrong—but I’m pretty sure it was North Carolina. And they weren’t allowed to call the firm “Aprio” because it wasn’t a partner in the firm’s name, and so he legally changed his name to Richard Aprio Kopelman, so that they could use the Aprio name in the firm.

So those hurdles that people put in the way are just so weird, but yes, going back to the question, I see it a lot. I know some young people right now that I want to get into the profession that have come from other professions, but they see an opportunity to use the skills they’ve built elsewhere in accounting because we are doing more advisory, we are doing this work to have an impact like they want to see—an impact on the business, but the people within the business, not just the owners, but everybody that works there as well. And so that’s one reason I’m bullish because I see that there’s a path into the profession that is not necessarily through the four year or five year as it is now, accounting degree.

On that topic, and I don’t mean to diverge too much, but it does seem, I mean, the longer I’m in the profession, particularly having started a firm, and having to go through some of the regulatory and kind of compliance things, I’ve noticed the same thing with the names of the firms in certain states. It seems like our profession, and maybe there are reasons for this, we’re trying to create some sort of obstacles or, or maybe they weren’t trying to, but it seems like that’s the result. 

Right. 

And I wonder just, do you have any sense of just things that seem absurd to us, you know, right now, like why they would have done that and how we could go about or how anybody can go about getting some of those obstacles removed? Those seem simple and, and you’re not degrading the profession in any way that I can tell, but, just the name thing alone, for certain states just blows my mind that that still exists.

Yeah. Yeah. If you wanted to expand Journey Advisors and CPAs into a few states, you’d have some trouble right now. And Barry Melancon’s been head of AICPA forever and Barry’s been great for the profession, and I’m not saying that Barry held anything back. I’m just also excited that there’s going to be a new leader coming in because I’m going to guess they’re going to go—not that Barry wasn’t fresh ideas and I just was, like I said, at a conference with Barry last week—I’m not saying anything bad about Barry. I’m just saying it’s, you know, having new ideas come in, probably be more innovative in, or more likely to, you know, not follow the SALY method. And again, I’m not saying he was, but you know, Same As Last Year, we are so ingrained with that just consistency with what we do, we have to be consistent. That’s part of accounting. And I think they, we allow that to flow over to everything else. And so I think it’s the, oh, we’ve done it this way forever. Every accounting firm has always been, you know, three people’s names. Every accounting firm tracks hours and bills by the hour, because we’ve always done this for 80 years. And I think it’s just a mindset thing that we just need to, and I’m seeing the change, you know, you’re doing changes. A lot of these people who are guests on the podcast are doing change. It’s starting, smaller firm, grassroots level, but I think that’s going to keep going upstream to the larger firms and we’re going to continue to see this change.

And one point to that, Sikich, which is a top 25 CPA firm, Chris Geier, who’s a managing partner there, was on the podcast before, and I think on the podcast, at least I’ve talked about this elsewhere, he doesn’t necessarily look for CPAs. He just looks for good people that are going to fit their culture and, you know, be able to do whatever the role is they need. And so there is large firms out there already looking to make a change that way.

Yeah, that’s great. I mean, just the, again, not to harp on it, but the naming thing, my father is a CPA and they ultimately ended up changing their name away from the last names because when a partner would maybe leave or a new one would come in, he’s like, we just, we have to redo everything, all of our licensure, all of our, you know, our letterhead, you know, just even the smallest things, it just seems so silly. But anyways, I’ll leave that there. 

Maybe switching gears a little bit to you, personally. So you ask your guests these questions. so I’ll ask you, what, what’s something outside of work—don’t say podcasting, don’t say speaking, don’t say anything that has any connection to the industry at all—but what’s something outside of work, one, two, three, four things that you’re passionate about and that really gives you energy and kind of fill your bucket, so to speak?

Alright, so turning the tables on me and then asking me that question, which is, I’m glad you did. There’s a handful of things. If you don’t have, you know, an outside of work passion, you need to get one because especially if you’re getting towards retirement age, you’re gonna be lost. You’re not gonna know what you’re doing. 

But for me, hiking or walking, in general, my wife and I go for walks a couple of times a day. In fact, I did, one of my things I say not to do, I missed our afternoon walk because you and I were recording, but I will get a walk in after this. For me, exercise is almost an addiction to me. I have to work out. I think I’ve worked out in the month of September, I think 29 of 30 days, which we are recording on September 30th. It makes me feel good. It gives me energy. And it allows me to do one of my other passions, which is drink good craft beer. And so if I get enough exercise in, I can get a few beers in too. 

Family, that’s an easy answer, but family is a huge passion of mine. I grew up with a big family, extended family, living in the same general area, and still have a big family that’s all around me, so that’s important.

And books on tape. I should read more, but I do a lot of books on tape, especially when I’m working out. Going through the Kevin Kerney series right now, written by Michael McGarrity, which is a lot of fun. But yeah, those are a handful of them. I could probably go on for an hour because there’s a lot of things I love doing, but those are some of the key ones.

Oh, I gotta say this one: Basketball was a huge, from the day I was 16, or the time I was 16, till the time I was 55 years old, I played basketball multiple times a week and just loved the sport, loved the camaraderie, loved, you know, the friendly trash talking on the court. Love everything about it. I’ve missed it for the last eight years because I had my knee replaced eight years ago, but I actually went back onto the court about three weeks ago and man, that was a blast and I plan on getting back out every few weeks now too. So that’s a passion I’m going to continue as well.

Oh, that’s great, yeah, and it fills the exercise bucket as well. Any, any books that you’ve read lately that you might give a strong recommendation to for the listeners?

Yeah, well, if it’s a business book, I got nothing.

Okay, okay.

I don’t—I should. But it doesn’t excite me to read these for some reason. I, you know, other than John Garrett’s What’s Your “And?”, which is not necessarily a business book, but it is, and Simon Sinek’s The Infinite Game, those two I could listen to, and again, I’ve listened to Simon Sinek’s The Infinite Game multiple times. I’ve read John’s book—I haven’t listened to it, but he did record an audio version. So I might do that. I tried to listen to Jim Collins’ Good to Great. I got about halfway through it and I couldn’t keep going. And I know it’s a great book and I know people rave about it.

I just, for some reason, cannot do business books. It’s a thing. And every single episode, someone tells me about a book. Every time I’m at a conference, somebody tells me about a book. Just last week at a conference, somebody was telling me about Getting Naked, a business book. And I just don’t do it. And I keep telling myself I should, but I also often talk about, hey, if you’re not doing something, that’s probably because you don’t like it and there’s no reason to do it if you don’t like it. I enjoy the books. I think they’re awesome. I think people do a great job in the writing. I just have a hard time concentrating on them.

Yeah, what I found too with business books, when you’re listening to them on Audible or wherever you get them, is I find myself stopping a lot, going back, re-listening because they’re giving some really good points or something. I find reading the actual hard copy of business books much more valuable than listening. So unless they’re, you know, motivational, Simon Sinek is a great one, you know, I’m not really taking notes when I’m listening to that, it’s more inspiration and kind of pumping you up a little bit from a business perspective.

Oh, yeah. 

But yeah, that’s great. I’d recommend one right now. I think it’s good for, you know, entrepreneurs or people who are going to start their business. Patrick Bet-David’s book, Your Next Five Moves, I think is one of his first books, but that’s a great one for anyone out there who’s maybe looking to start their business.

On the topic of, what do you do outside of work, you made the comment of, you know, if you don’t have that passion outside of, your work life or those things that you’re committed to, you know, you really need to find that. When you were building your business, did you find yourself, you know, maybe 100 percent business focused or did you always have that grounding where you had some things outside of work keeping you balanced?

Oh yeah, for sure. Basketball was, when I was starting my first accounting firm, which I started back in 1991, I was still playing tons of basketball, but I was coaching basketball, then when my kids were born, which is ’93 and ’95, then, you know, five years later, 10 years later, whatever, I coached hundreds and hundreds of games. And even though I built my accounting firm the wrong way—it was way too tax heavy, it was way more just compliance and being a reporter of what happened rather than being an advisor and affecting what happened—even if I was working 80 hours a week, I never missed anything my kids did. So, whether I was coaching, which is usually it, or they just had some school event that they were part of, I always have done that. And travel has always been a big part of our family. And we always planned, that was like five “always” in that sentence, so “always” so far in that sentence. 

You’re making your point. 

After tax season, one more, we always planned a trip immediately after tax season, and usually it was just up to like a water park in the Dells, Wisconsin Dells, or something like that. But that was, whether I was building my accounting firm, whether I was building Tri-Merit, whether I was building a real estate development firm, all these things I’ve done in the past, outside of work passions have always been important to me from day one.

Well, Randy, I’ve appreciated the time. I want to hearken back again, to that first episode when you turned the tables on me, you asked me a question that I always ask on the podcast, and we haven’t spoken before this, so you didn’t know any of the questions coming your way, but if you went back and listened to that first episode, you may have known this was coming, but the question is, what have you removed from your life, which thereby has added to your life? 

Email. 

Oh, okay. Email. 

It is a simple answer, but that’s just an example of, you know, I, I mentioned, I think I mentioned earlier, I live at the, I feel like I live at the intersection of my passion and my skills, and I’m not passionate about email. I know it’s necessary, so my assistant reads all my email and then she highlights the things I need to see. What I talk about all the time is just finding those things that you go “ugh” when you’re about to do them and outsource it, delegate it, give it to someone else, because that’s something you don’t enjoy doing and that’s not going to be the best use of your time. 

So it took me a long time to realize this, but I can outsource my email. I mean, I can outsource, you know, my scheduling. She responds to my emails now. She’s scheduled this podcast for us where I used to do that all the time. So that’s a very simple answer, but it’s representative of just things in general that we don’t enjoy or that, gives us the “ugh” factor when we look at it, that I try to take all of those out and believe me, it, it makes a huge difference to your happy factor.

Oh, absolutely. The best answer I’ve ever heard, frankly, I think I’ve never gotten that response because no one has been able to accomplish it. So I’m glad to hear that you have. 

Randy, I appreciate this opportunity. I look forward to five years from now and maybe I’ll get to do it again in some form or fashion, but I think it’s very clear why you’ve been receiving all of these accolades and this recognition over the past number of years—it’s not just because of a podcast, it’s because of who you are. And people like you, they like listening to your voice, but people really like you, they appreciate your perspective, they appreciate your drive and, you know, really just kind of pulling ideas and asking, you know, sometimes some very simple questions. Just tell me a little bit about your life, right? And then you get some deep insights into the profession and into what’s important in life and, and even into what’s going on, the current trends. And so I’d like to, on behalf of all of your listeners, Thank you for taking that step to do this and continuing to do it over all these years. You do a great job. I look forward to many more. And again, I really appreciate the time that you’ve given me to help you celebrate this five years. 

Well, believe me, it was an honor to be your guest today on the podcast. And I got to tell you this: I know you’re busy and you’ve not done your own podcast for a while. You are really good at this. You should consider it again. So this was awesome. You did a great job. I appreciate you being on. 

Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thanks again, Randy.

Thanks everybody. And I’ll see you in five years. Hopefully before though!